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A discussion that occurred on The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz went viral on Wednesday, with many in the football media community responding to Pablo Torre’s stance on the prevalence of film analysis and the manner in which it’s often discussed.
Torre’s comments were spurred by a clip from this week’s episode of Hard Knocks: Offseason with the New York Giants, which showed Drake Maye breaking down a play with the team’s front office ahead of the NFL Draft. While fellow guest co-host Domonique Foxworth marveled at Maye’s ability to quickly recite terminology like “dolphin right 72 H angle” to Giants head coach Brian Daboll, Torre was less enthusiastic about the clip, which he used to make a larger point about the state of football media.
“I hate this entire genre — of video, of person, of cultural trend,” Torre said. “All we just heard was a bunch of jargon that 99 percent of the audience has no idea what it means at all.
“I think Dan Orlovsky’s really good at what he does. I think he’s the guy who’s probably the best at the telestration and the breaking down and the dissection. But it just feels like a lot of people nodding at something that they think they should be impressed by as opposed to actually knowing what’s happening and we’re getting away from the actual premise of like, ‘Football players doing something on the field that is good,’” Torre later added, before stating: “I just think we fetishize jargon.”
We wrote up Torre’s take under the headline “Pablo Torre is sick of NFL film analysis content: ‘We fetishize jargon,’” which drew a reaction from many of his peers. Such reactions typically fit into one of three categories, the first being those disagreeing with Torre’s anti-jargon take on a scale that ranged from disappointment to outright outrage.
Damn Pablo 💔 https://t.co/aer6wMoXYr
— Ted Nguyen (@FB_FilmAnalysis) July 10, 2024
NFL fans are smarter than ever and in my experience are hungry for content like this. It’s why guys like Baldy, Orlovsky, and Darius Butler have had so much success. We shouldn’t be dumbing things down and insulting the intelligence of our fans https://t.co/4Hffs20c3h
— Matt Hamilton (@MattHamilton25) July 11, 2024
I understand where Pablo is coming from here, but his argument ignores that 99% of sports discourse is still “CAN DAK LEAD THE COWBOYS TO A SUPER BOWL!?” https://t.co/jXqh3RVYKE
— Tom Fornelli (@TomFornelli) July 10, 2024
We need MORE film/analytics content, not less. Thats part of what makes football great. I could be wrong but I feel like that content is largely missing from other sports, specially the NBA https://t.co/b9l8RENqBI
— CFBNumbers (@CFBNumbers) July 10, 2024
Quite possibly the weirdest take. From a really smart person.
— Quincy Avery (@QuincyAvery) July 10, 2024
pic.twitter.com/Jxm66IONSi
— Brett Kollmann (@BrettKollmann) July 10, 2024
The second — and perhaps smallest — category consisted of those (including this author) agreeing with the former ESPN senior writer.
A very based take from Pablo. And I agree with him to an extent. Historically, you’re taught not to have a ton of jargon in your copy because it will go over most people’s heads. https://t.co/oMHEYJH4tN
— Ben Baby (@Ben_Baby) July 11, 2024
Pablo poked the hornet’s nest with this but he’s spot on here https://t.co/esxe45BS8z pic.twitter.com/OE03JjUylW
— Kevin Cole (@KevinCole___) July 11, 2024
Agree with @PabloTorre 1000%
We get it, basketball podcasters. You know what “horns” is. https://t.co/eIJ5cABk7Y
— Ben Axelrod (@BenAxelrod) July 10, 2024
The third — and perhaps largest — category consisted of people who didn’t necessarily agree or disagree with Torre, but understand the nuance of his point and the need for such content to be easily digestible to the audience. Those who fit into that category included ex-NFL players-turned-media members Chris Long and Geoff Schwartz, as well as ESPN’s Mina Kimes and The Ringer’s Benjamin Solak.
Agree with Ben (and Pablo) here about jargon
To me—the Maye clip (and others like it) delights ppl not bc they all understand the terminology, but bc you get to see an NFL coach who is clearly impressed by a young guy. It’s the reaction that makes it fun, not the jargon. https://t.co/zw6S39W1TY
— Mina Kimes (@minakimes) July 11, 2024
2 things can be true-Some fans fetishize jargon, consume it in the wrong places and regurgitate it incorrectly.-Some fans exercise the power of choice and find media members who educate fans on what’s actually going on out there. Mercifully, those guys exist. https://t.co/xmBo3oy8G6
— chris long (@JOEL9ONE) July 10, 2024
I have thoughts
1) NFL media has a variety of content thatyou can choose your own adventure. Plenty of fans love the jargon as an inside look into ball + a way to learn. If you don’t there’s plenty of content without any of that included.
2) I do think sometimes the jargon… https://t.co/6qkHDBUfYm
— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) July 10, 2024
Jargon-heavy film analysis done solely for the sake of proving you 1) watch film and 2) know jargon is, objectively, awful
The Maye clip is cool though bc it’s just a behind-the-scenes peek imo https://t.co/D2UwGt8mQd
— Benjamin Solak (@BenjaminSolak) July 10, 2024
Seeing as this is *literally my job* I have a couple thoughts:1. Jargon for jargon’s sake is unintelligible to a vast majority of the audience2. There is no substitute for analyzing film to get the full picture. Nothing.3. Whatever unique vocabulary used MUST be defined https://t.co/qhDX4qEHAE
— Jacob Nierob (@JNierob) July 10, 2024
I’m not commenting on the take itself because I agree with some of the underlying points. It’s a fascinating topic. I think there’s a very big difference between the people who do it to try and get their own opinion across from those who are genuinely just trying to provide… https://t.co/CpeATJvP42
— Honest NFL (@TheHonestNFL) July 10, 2024
Jargon for the sake of jargon is bad.
But there’s plenty of people who are really, really good at breaking it down for the average fan. https://t.co/3TRiA4dNP2
— Ian Kenyon (@ikenyonFB) July 10, 2024
Torre, himself, also took to X to clarify his stance.
“To be clear: I really like analysis of complicated subjects that makes me smarter!” he wrote. “Not stuff that feels inaccessible by design.”
Demystifying: good! (I JUST PUBLISHED A 50-MIN EPISODE ABOUT A SCANDAL IN *SABRE FENCING*, ONE OF THE MOST INDECIPHERABLE SPORTS IN THE WORLD.) Mystifying: bad!
— Pablo Torre 🕳️ (@PabloTorre) July 10, 2024
For what it’s worth, it was those who fit into the third category of reactions who seemed to have either watched the segment or actually read the article we posted, rather than just reacting to an admittedly limited headline. It’s also worth noting that Torre and Foxworth’s conversation was far more lighthearted than some made it out to be, with Foxworth playing up his bonafides as an ex-NFL player and Torre leaning into being a jealous nerd.
Still, Torre’s comments were noteworthy and clearly sparked a larger conversation about how film analysis — and the accompanying jargon — is used in football media. We did our best to accurately reflect those comments and the tone in which they were delivered. We do, however, regret not using a picture of Torre in a narwhal costume for the post.
Thank you for properly recognizing my place in sports media history https://t.co/iuwL9smIVZ
— Pablo Torre 🕳️ (@PabloTorre) September 9, 2019
[The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz]
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